925. GE Refrigerator Noise Part III (LIVE WITH IT!) with 9/22/20 UPDATE

Previous posts re the GE Refrigerator noise are:
   911. GE Refrigerator/Freezer Noise Part I
   920. GE Refrigerator/Freezer Noise Part II: Post 911 Continuance

Noise:
  Within Fridge after cooling begins
  20 feet away after cooling stops
  20 feet away after cooling starts
  All noise Sound Bites in Dropbox

My previous chat with GE and Engineering follows and precedes the Service call today Friday, 12/6//2019. This is an email to GE responding to the engineer's comments:

a) I think we can all agree with the engineer that the noise is NOT normal as he/she notes.

b) As far as damper being the problem, the noise does occurs when invoked by the service person approximately 7-10 seconds after performing the service function. This is only what I can report. Whether the 7-10 seconds after the function is invoked qualifies as "when the damper is activated" I do not know.

c) The comment that the damper cannot be the noise during the 3-4 hour inactive time makes complete sense to me, but the service person claims the damper is constantly servicing the air exchange even during the inactive time which differs from the engineer's comment that it should "seldom" occur.
d) The constant expansion /contraction of gases as per your engineer's comments and the possibility the noise is related to that fits the card in that the noise does occur constantly between 7 and 11 times each hour. He had GE send mastic to essentially stop a vibration caused by the constant start/stop of refrigerant movement and expansion. This needs to be examined.
e) His question as to whether the noise sound bites come from the Freezer section I will answer that the specific area of the noise according to the service person is behind the bottom refrigerator drawers (fruit & vegetables) where the refrigerator air tower & damper reside. The recorder was located multiple places when the sound bites were recorded, all outside some on the floor at left side, some at middle right while on a counter, some on left and middle top. I personally did not explore specifically where the noise was occurring.
f) The engineer comment "When a gas noise is confirmed, this is not directly related to the damper, unless the damper was kept open for a LONG time (forced) so the balance between refrigerator and freezer is broken, so the sealed system is forced to work harder to keep the balance." confuses me more and concerns me. The pattern of knocks (1/2/3) in each grouping sort of indicates that the noise is not a simple door opening (i.e., an occurrence of 1) or closing (occurrence of 1). Patterns of 2 or 3 8-10 knocks separated by 7-10 seconds to me indicated that some RETRY of a failed function is being done. His comment that a damper noise "should seldom occur" during an inactive 3-4 hour period and then his last comment in quotes above could mean an unbalance between the refrigerator and freezer when a damper is kept open for a LONG time (forced) could point to multiple problems.

I can only assume the noise is NOT normal and if it cannot be fixed we would request a replacement. With all the different possibilities I can only hope a service person has all the tools and the refrigerator has all the service functions to diagnose the issue. We remain with a lot of questions and no real solutions at this point. Maybe after this Friday we can better address some of your engineer's comments.

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Also needed to be noted is that two parts sent by GE were NOT compatible with my model. One was the Air Tower Assembly for which pictures were provided in the 920 post.
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Update 12/6/2019: I highly recommend Samsson Appliance Repair, 806-665-0100 (Jerry & Catherine Noordenbos).

Jerry immediately disassembled the incorrect Air Tower Assembly sent by GE and removed the damper that happened to be identical to the one installed in my refrigerator model. With the old and the new one side by side he switched back and forth and forced the damper to function. The old one "caused" the noise after the damper door was told to close and the new one was silent. It was NOT the door operation that made the noise, but some other activity about 7 seconds after it closed. So, at this point it was the damper that CAUSED the noise to happen wherever it was itself. Right now the fridge is cooling down and we'll know definitely whether it is completely fixed in 24 hours. lol, I am still hearing FALSE noises since we are so used to the 10+ times per hour. Guess its like losing a limb and still feeling it. A final report will be added to this tomorrow -- knocking on wood (pun intended:  we've been hearing a woodpecker rap on wood for so long now).
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Update 12/7/2019: we are restoring the unit with the food and drinks removed for servicing. Up to this morning, now 9:36 am, the noise occurred only once and was faint and not audible more than a distance greater than 1/2 of that before. Tolerable. But it does indicate that the noise was NOT in the damper itself but after it opened and closed as learned during the installation of the damper and the testing by the service person. About 7 seconds after the damper function (open followed by immediate close) the noise occurred. We'll call it so far, so good as far as suppressing the noise.
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Update 12/8/2019: It's morning and the noise occurred another 4 times yesterday. So, a total of 5 occurrences that we observed in 27 hours. A far scream from the average of about 9 per hour or expected 243 in 27 hours. Unanswered is where the noise actually originates and the operation causing it. How the changing to the damper mattered is interesting and unknown since the noise appears elsewhere and after the damper functions.  Bad news is the noise persists. Great news is that the frequency has been reduced about 98% AND the noise it makes is at least 70% less audible. As a matter of fact, I without my hearing aid only heard it twice, whereas my wife and her good ears heard it all 5. Is the noise normal? According to the GE engineer, no. Bur, who is to say? Will there be future troubles because of whatever operation is causing the noise? Who can guess? I think we can live with the reduced noise for now, but will continually monitor any variations for worsening.
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12/13/2019 Update: The noise continues, but as stated at reduced frequencies and volumes. I find it unimaginable that GE could let this out with ANY noise as being heard! I have some theories as to what is making the sound and may test some noninvasive fixes to completely stifle the noise, not stop the operation causing the noise. My issue remains in suspended status with GE who has responded quickly and always as requested. Unfortunately I haven't found an engineer who can clearly indicate WHAT is making the noise despite omitting it is NOT normal. From all indications based on an incorrectly sent damper (another model) that was enclosed in Styrofoam, I can almost bet that the noise was a problem with that model and the Styrofoam was added to suppress the noise. I can only factually state that the noise always occurs after the damper closes and about 7 seconds later. But, I can not factually state that this is the only time it occurs unless the damper executes 9-11 times per hour which the engineer said it wouldn't, particularly when we haven't opened it for 4 hours! SO, it remains a mystery and aggravation. Considerably less so than before switching out the original damper, but if a room is silent and any noise is made that you cannot identify as normal, it is like ringing a bell and very annoying, Beware
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12/19/2019 Update: The issue CONTINUES! I was just reprimanded for FOCUSING on the noise. So, the problematic damper that chaatters inside a plastic air tower that amplifies the sound into something that sounds like a woodpecker drilling on the house and heard up to 38 feet away is MY problem because my hearing impairment (both ears) isn't bad enough despite the need for a hearing aid. The replacement damper from MY point of view is better because I can now only hear it from 20-25 feet away, whereas, my wife with normal hearing still hears it from 38 feet. Amazing! We still not have a conclusive SOURCE of the noise. My findings are based on common sense and physics ,watching the repair service, and comments from the GE Engineer. Here are my ideas:

After reviewing many, many videos on You Tube re similar noises, a couple specifically showing a GE damper chattering at the end of the opening function and the end of the closing function it is feasible to assume this chatter of about 8-10 chatters IS the 8-10 time knocking noise as amplified by the air tower assembly. It is also highly suspect since the incorrect replacement air tower (for a newer model) was enclosed in a make-shift Styrofoam case and taped around it with masking tape. This Styrofoam can provide no other purpose other than sound suppression, meaning that the newer model "patched" the damper design of my model with Styrofoam suppressant. So, GE knew about it. MY damper is not encased and rests directly in the plastic structure of the refrigerator and exposed directly to the air tower assembly with is about 3 times longer than the newer model and runs from the bottom to top of the food storage area. I would bet this is the SOURCE of the noise. If so, the possibility of first suppressing the sound would be impossible. Of more worry is that when the damper door reaches its end point, instead of immediately stopping, the damper movement mechanism continues to try to shut open or close it for a period of time (8-10 chatters) meaning that something else in the component is being stressed and will fail in the future. That is at least one or more repair services outside warranty at a cost of $550 each! Many, many articles are on the internet at repair websites detailing the noisy/broken damper.

Since neither the service person nor GE conclusively identified the source of the noise, it is still possible that it is a vibration of a capillary tube against something else during the period it occurs, namely just after the cooling cycle begins, about 7 seconds after compressor turns on, or from 10 seconds to 2 minutes after the compressor stops Usually 2 sequences of knocks about 10 seconds apart).

Without knowing the SOURCE of the noise, no one can provide a solution! If the damper is the problem, then even a refrigerator replacement of same model will have the same problematic damper in it and have the noise. Replacing the damper with a new one did reduce the volume of the sound. I can explain this looking at the distance between the damper door and the base is reaches at the end of operation.  Common sense tells me that a door hitting a resistance from a shorter distance (new one) compare to a longer distance (old one) but at the same speed would "bang" less due because it's force (mass x acceleration) is less than the one with longer distance. I'm no physics major, so this is just my common sense.

So, what are the alternatives:
1. Live with the noise of hearing a woodpecker in your fridge
2. Replacing it with a different refrigerator -- NOT the same model
3. Fixing a non-damper SOURCE problem.

Are there any more? I don't see any, and only 2 or 3 appeal to me.
All for now. I sent more sound bites to GE to analyze. Some day I expect to hear a reply from an engineer who has yet communicated directly me or my service repair shop. Until then, listen to the new sound bites recorded within the food storage area to capture all the noises and operations AND from 20' away:

Within Fridge after cooling begins
  20 feet away after cooling stops
  20 feet away after cooling starts
  All noise Sound Bites in Dropbox

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12/24/2019 - No action taken by GE since last time -- everybody on holiday vacations! The refrigerator continues to knock away. Subdued a little as stated, but the frequency remains up. So, instead of a woodpecker hammering hard wood, it is now hammering wood covered by a very thin piece of rubber (NOT Literally). Once again, although the continuous noise is annoying and embarrassing when friends come to visit,  the main concern is a defective part or problematic damper closing mechanism that continues to exert closing motion after the door is already closed. Hence, unnecessary stress that is bound to break something in the future. One would have thought the inventions of pistons and solenoid valves could have provided a few hints when designing this floppy door! You know, simple sliding open/close door that covers a hole without banging into sides and making a HAMMERING noise each time! But instead of fixing it in future models GE covered it up, literally this time, with Styrofoam to suppress the noise instead of focusing on the faulty design and problem for owners.
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12/30/2019 - Sent a note off to GE stating that the noise is getting worse again since the damper replacement. Frequency is back to original or worse , loudness back to being heard 38' away, number of consecutive (no pauses) knocks over 20 in a row increased. This wasn't a very Merry Christmas -- didn't invite that woodpecker!
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12/31/2019 - Looking forward to a Happy New Year with a replacement. I guess GE thinks the problem will be fixed by a new one. Let's hope. However, if the damper is making the noise, i.e., the source, than I hope they wish a little harder for a good damper. I approved a new order with the condition that it comes with a full warranty like the original. Maybe by the end of January we'll have some peace and quiet and confidence in our new refrigerator. As I stated back in the first post, other than this noise/part/design we are pleased with all the features. Thank you Della for the offer and coordination.
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1/9/2020 - A new fridge was installed on 1/7/20 to replace the original. And guess what? As expected, it makes the same noise, a hair softer, but still the same woodpecker and frequency. Guess this proves the damper door is involved. Now is it the damper operation itself causing the noise or the operation of air exchange from freezer to food storage and it's stopping that vibrates the door for the 2-second machine gun-woodpecker noise? If I knew how it was supposed to operate maybe I'd be able to conclude something myself. If a KNOWLEDGEABLE engineer knows how, then he should be able to conclude what causes the noise. Instead, the only engineer to comment did so remotely and he said the noise isn't normal without any further explanation. The 2 different service personnel on the 3 service calls also did not conclusively define where the noise originated or what was causing it.

The replacement was also NOT identical. Same model, but the ice maker installed did NOT have an on/off switch as it is supposed to as per manuals and as did the original refrigerator. Instead it has only a way to lock the feeler to the upright position (stop producing). One could say that suffices until the feeler malfunctions or breaks; then you have no way to turn off the ice and get to continuously empty the tray daily for the rest of the fridge's or your life or to turn off the water. The latter may present another problem in that the icemaker will assume water is in the fridge to process and continue its operation without water.! Of course, I am speculating, or should I say concerned without an engineer guaranteeing safety.

Right now we are determining whether we can live with noise that is heard faintly heard from 38' away (presently faintly, but the previous replacement of the damper on the original got louder later)  that happens 8-12 times per hour all day long and whether we feel comfortable that it is not causing more damage. The icemaker is a different story and needs to be like the original.
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1/10/2020 - I closed the incident report with the caveat that the noise is now just faintly heard at the moment. Remember, for the previous refrigerator the noise became louder as time passed. Should it became a real nightmare again, I'll open a new incident.

As far as the icemaker, I was told it is a replacement for the original with the electric switch. My reasons for the new design being inadequate are stated in previous update above. I feel the possibility of the flimsy feel arm is higher than an electric switch. Locking the feeler arm up is no different than the switching off before. There is now no secondary measure to ensure it is off if the arm fails. I'll just have to live with this.

GE service representative was very responsive to my issues, but could not get the complete answers I needed from the GE engineering team. This may have been a complicated issue since it involved not only the damper door which I have concluded actually made the noise, but was not conclusive that it was the damper operation that caused it. Quite possibly, it was the air flow or pressure equalization that rattled the damper door. Regardless, as in different models where the damper was enclosed in Styrofoam to suppress the noise from being amplified by the air tower assembly, this GDE25ESKJRSS model is not designed to allow the same noise suppressing technique.

I love all the other features (so far) of this model, except for the now livable noise that still occurs and the icemaker design. I appreciate the service case representative for her efforts to satisfy us and who eventually replaced the original refrigerator.
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3/4/20 Update - This woodpecker noise is totally ridiculous! Don't ever buy this refrigerator model or any GE product.
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7/15/2020 Update - If you read this entire post you would have noted that a NEW fridge was installed on 1/9/2020 and had identical noise! I was told to live with it. Well I did and around 6/26/2020 the noise essentially stopped! All of a sudden the woodpecker left town. Since then just 3-4 times we have heard a somewhat very weaken bird knocking. But, I would call that a victory since 99+% of the time since 6/26 he has vacated the premises. Now, does this mean the issue resolved itself? Or does this mean whatever was causing the noise broke or was worn down to no longer cause the noise? I don't want to think about it! I'll live with the now quiet fridge and enjoy all the other features I mentioned in my posts. If it breaks for good somehow related, it is dumpster time. I'll just buy a good brand. I still do NOT recommend GE who still has made no effort to identify the cause of the noise.

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9/22/2020

Woody only took a short vacation. He's back pounding as frequently as he initially did and as loud. This is getting real old. When I can sit in my easy chair 30-40 feet away, I can hear all the noisier appliances in the kitchen. But, the dishwasher only runs for a set period of time and only when I want it to. The fridge runs through its normal cycles humming as expected. But, this woodpecker is a constant disturbance. Just when you finally get silence, average about 30 seconds, the fridge goes through a cooling cycle moving freezer air to the refrigeration section for a short spirt. But when that happens, Woody perks up and pounds when the damper opens and then a second time when it closes. Why the fridge has to continually cycle in such short time period is really suspect. But to knock each time is a purely poor engineering design. What causes the actual knocking sound is still a mystery. Yes, I know its related to the cooling exchange and damper, but what is physically being down to make the noise? Other than this disturbing noise which could be symptoms of a larger problem in the future this replacement fridge better maintains the temperatures in freezer and refrigerator section -- meaning, I no longer see the drastic temperatures like I did with the original refrigerator. Specifically, the first one used to register -15 to -30 degrees for the freezer and 32-35 degrees for the refrigerator and disregarded the settings of 0 and 40. Now when I look at the actual temperatures, they are right around the settings. So, as I noted in the earlier posts, the original fridge WAS faulty in temperatures in addition to the unhappy bird knocking. Another reason why GE products will no longer be a choice for me. I'm being forced to LIVE WITH IT. Thus, I spend most of my time out or play music constantly which still doesn't make the knocking disappear -- just makes it less distracting.